I’ve closed comments on the previous post – “USA Gun Control”. For me pretty much everything has been said. It was a very lively “debate”, and very personally enriching to have had the privilege to discuss with my readers – that’ll be you 😀
It certainly hasn’t been and wasn’t my intention to offend anyone. My intention was in suggesting a possible alternative, as has been adopted by other countries such as UK and Australia.
In any case at the end of the day I don’t live in the US, so it doesn’t personally affect me, whether guns are given away free with candy bars in 7-11 or banned altogether. It’s your country guys, you may do what suits you best.
A little of what I gained from the debate with my readers :
1. “GUN CONTROL” not “GUN PROHIBITION” – clue was in the title. The US constitution says “the right to bear arms” not “the right to posses an entire military arsenal in our home and be able to buy guns in 7-11 next to the chewing gum”. Moreover, the constitutional right is already limited in law, with people having to jump through hoops to get guns. So gun control isn’t an constitutional issue, the supporting laws could be changed without affecting the constitution. You can still have the “right”, provided you meet sensible criteria. And I never said that there aren’t legitimate reasons for people to have guns, “to bear arms”, anyway.
2. You’re British you wouldn’t understand, our culture is different. Fraid not on that one either, I learnt yesterday that Australia has similar gun laws to UK. They went through a similar process to the UK except their government bought their guns back instead of (essentially) confiscating them as they did in the UK. So it’s not a cultural difference issue. That’d be a stick in the mud issue actually.
3. There’s almost certainly social issues that need to be addressed. So gun control solely, doesn’t solve the underlying problems. However social change is very hard to implement, time consuming with all the bureaucracy, and may or may not solve the problems. Be good for people to push in that direction though, sometimes this approach can be very successful.
4. Criminals have guns so we must have them too. Well criminals also have drugs, so does that mean we also need to have drugs ? Criminals torture people, so should we be able to do that too ? Not really. Do we allow everything that criminals do, no we don’t, we’re opposed to that, that’s why they’re called criminals and we’re not. And also criminals will always have guns, they can be “acquired” illegally probably almost anywhere in the world. Or hand made in a small well equipped workshop probably with all the parts from Home Depot … although I’m not a gunsmith, so don’t quote me on that !
5. We ventured into vigilantism, which was interesting and I gained a lot personally discussing. My conclusion is that vigilantism may be as bad or worse than the original crime, because of the repercussive consequences. An eye for an eye springs to mind, and that makes the whole world blind eventually. A possible outcome is anarchy if people go around killing others for revenge, retribution or “justice”. With lynchings or vigilante killings going on, well, who’s next, could be me or my loved ones or yours. This is why we have justice systems in most civilised countries in the world. And Police (and armed forces) to uphold the laws. I do appreciate the anger that people feel when justice isn’t served, there’s plenty I’ve seen that’s unjust personally. However I don’t agree that this is a justification for possessing a gun, or vigilantism, or lynchings.
6. Gun control probably doesn’t solve Police brutality, or Police causing unjust deaths. Only difference is that it’s a little more difficult to kill people without guns.
7. “Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics” – Probably not best to cite statistics to me as evidence. I was a statistician in a former life whilst trading the markets for several years. Stats are at best an indicator, are often skewed to suit the agenda of the person presenting them and at worst out and out lies. In any case as I know how to prepare stats myself – so I’d want to see the raw numbers, know how they were obtained and possibly even obtain my own numbers. Before making any conclusion on whether stats support an opinion or not. Even “good stats” only serve as an indication, they are NOT solid hard facts. And you can’t predict the future using the past, either.
8. I reject the race issue, on the grounds we’re all human beings, and that solutions need to be found that suit everyone regardless of race, colour or creed. Blaming people of one ethnic origin or the other is just plain racist in my opinion. Racism I won’t tolerate on my blog – I have black, white and brown friends, there are good people from all races.
9. Lastly – as one lady said – things are probably unlikely to change (regarding gun control in the US) – TRUE.
PERSONALLY – I’m pro-life, so less guns is better as far as I’m concerned. That’s my only real angle on the whole thing. Plus sometimes I like to debate with people, it helps hone my blogging skills 😀
Bottom line for me is – it was interesting to get people’s points of view. It really is a privilege to have people share their points of view and discuss. I always learn a great deal – my reward for being a leader in this situation.
I often play devils advocate, especially when I’m being told what my opinion should be, ie preached to. Clues are usually in the opening sentence with words like “But” and “Let’s get one thing straight” … so probably best drop those if you want to post a conflicting opinion, as I can be VERY assertive and will pull apart any opinion if I want to.
99% of the commenters were lovely, and offered their opinions for debate, politely, respectfully and non-preaching. ONE guy has however been banned permanently from my blog, and added to my personal blacklist. I won’t tolerate passive aggressive behaviour from egocentric loners. I have little time for people who value “being right” at all costs, over friendship. We’re in a community here, and whilst people have respect for each other, most of the time it’s cool for people to say what they want.
No great shakes – My following count went down by one and up by several hundred, so I’m not going to cry at all over one single petty guy with an over inflated ego and skin as thin as cling film.
Also, I’ve said this many times before – this is my blog, I do say what I want here and do do what I want with my blog. I don’t change content to suit individual’s beliefs or preferences or opinions, or indeed change who I am because someone else “doesn’t like” it. Never have never will. My voice and opinion is just as important as anyone else’s, as is my right to be an individual.
THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED, I’M VERY GRATEFUL, I ENJOYED 😀
Not sure when my next “controversial” issue will be – the time consumed answering comments was massive on gun control, and I do have other responsibilities and commitments !
Cheers
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Don Charisma 
The other thing I wanted to mention was the misconception held by some of your commenters that if the police in Australia had been armed, they could have ended the Lindt hostage thing sooner. The fact is that the police were armed (all Australian police carry hand guns) and there was a sniper with an aim on the guy the whole time. The reason that they didn’t shoot was that the cafe is actually an old bank and the glass in the windows is reinforced. Nobody could predict what would happen if they tried to shoot through it. Would the bullet ricochet? Would the suspect realise what happened and then take it out on the hostages? Would he detonate the bomb he said that he carried in the backpack he wore the whole time? Too many variables there. I know as armchair experts we all would have handled it differently but it is what it is and this is what happened.
Thanks for sharing Suz, and yes easy to be an armchair expert !
I came to the party late (as is usual). I have my views on gun control within Australia and have guest blogged about it before. http://www.deliberatingdave.com/my-thoughts-on-gun-control-from-sue-at-it-goes-on/
No worries hun … thanks for sharing … and I did say before, it’s ok for me if you just want to read latest posts – I’m not offended in the slightest, I know you’ve a lot on your plate right now 😀 …
That I do indeed but a little each day in blog reading keeps me somewhat sane.
Happy for that Suz 😀
It was a great post,and an interesting debate,can’t wait for your next one.Though why anyone would want to get rude and obnoxious and dictatorial on your blog is beyond me.I guess not everyone can be sensible with this sort of thing….Anyway thank you,xx
LOL … well egocentric loners can be like that ! … I enjoyed, and looking forward to next one, will have to make sure I have adequate time available as many many comments to answer 😀
Yeah, the gun thing is a pretty polarizing one with us yanks…sorry probably shoulda gave you a heads up, sounds like it got weird…
LOL … thanks for thinking of me … although, no worries, if I’d have been warned I might not have done it … and then I’d have lost out on a lot of learning … so happy I did …
Most adults can cope with differences of opinions … those who can’t I’m better off with them not being subscribers of my blog … so it’s cool for me all ways 😀
Agree on all fronts, very good indeed, certainly not cultural – there was a good film – Bowling for Columbine that highlighted Canada gun laws versus US gun laws, and death by guns etc.
But you couldn’t have put if more succinctly – less guns is better ! Brave topic to bring up, but an important one.
Agreed … and without being brave, where’s the progress !
I’ll keep an eye out for that movie, too 😀
In Venezuela, my country, we have the same problem with the guns; but the right to bear guns isn´t in our laws. Many of them are bear in illegal way, few of the citizen have the licence to use and bear one.
No matter how many ideas the actual president try to use against the violence with fire weapons, one day he thinks everythings is nice and the outlaws want to disarm themselves in a pacfic way and other days they believe that the savage violence in Venezuela is something to blame an outsider, always USA.
UK is similar, in that our guns are banned and criminals still have them …
Lol well you can cross off ” try something different” 🙂
Probably, but worth a try !
Hi there Don, thanks for such an articulate, balanced and rational commentary on what is a highly emotive subject.
Living as I do in the UK, I am frequently appalled by the rise of the Christian right wing zealots and the frankly terrifying “open carry” movement in some states of the U.S.
I have also lost a few of my American readers, due to the airing of my personal views on this topic and I thought you and your readers may find the relevant segment of this post from my other blog, “Diary of an Internet Nobody” interesting, or at least a useful contribution to the discussion.
Keep up the good work dude.
Over to “dalecooper57” –
http://diaryofaninternetnobody.com/2014/07/06/rights-wrongs-guns-god-and-the-wisdom-of-lisa/
You’re welcome … was a bit of a marathon the original post, but I gained a lot !
I’ve lost at least one reader … however, it’s clear obviously I don’t care … differences of opinion are a good thing on the whole, most adults can live with them and still be friends … so all that’s happened is I’ve weeded out a few who were fake friends 😀
Thanks for sharing …
😀 – Good for you 😉
Your a brave man. Thank you for sharing your views. I’m Australian and gun control/prohibition works here. The US needs to stop throwing around its ‘get out of jail free card’ called the Second Amendment. A bygone law for a bygone age.
You’re welcome, and no growth without effort … I do get that, and that’s probably the most emotive of all the arguments for Americans as the constitution represents freedom itself … personally I think their constitution doesn’t have to change, they just need newer/better laws that support the constitution … anyway, up to them to decide, it’s their country at the end of the day …
Reblogged this on Mohit – The caretaker.
Thanks 😀
Americans with no criminal record, No serious mental illness, and a 7 day waiting period would be acceptable to me. The Constitution does provide for the right to bear arms, and should not be infringed upon. Also, I am against the militarization of police. There is no way, Our Police need to be an ARMY. For decades SWAT teams were good enough , and the motto To serve and Protect is a good one.
Fair enough 😀
Excellent blog. I like gun control. That’s all I am saying. 🙂
Probably for the best, there’s strong feeling in either camp 😀
I didn’t see the original post but can easily imagine the mud that was stirred! If you get a chance, check out this Aussie comedians take in US gun control. Very funny and so very true!https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3HJVp3n9c
Plenty of mud … and thanks for sharing 😀
I was wondering why i couldnt reply but in answer i think if you came to the U.S. And became a cop you might get a tank;)
I might just apply for a green card LOL
Oh, and here’s a nice quote you can use the next time some Second Amendment nut accosts you – ‘Guns don’t kill people, bullets fired from guns held by nuts kill people.’ 😉
Definitely using that one 😀
You’re a brave man to have entered into that fray. Say gun controls to some Americans and they begin to hyperventilate and foam at the mouth. As an American, originally from Texas, and a military veteran, I’m familiar with the issue and a strong supporter of sensible gun laws and rational ownership. That said, I try to avoid getting into conversations with most people about it, because they tend to devolve into irrational arguments. Keep up the good work, though. Your blog is a breath of fresh air. 🙂
Thanks my friend, and yes I saw most of the irrational arguments … for me it helps honing my skills as a blogger and leader … I do always thoroughly enjoy the debates here and what I learn from them.
And as for entering in the fray once in a while … I always find leaves me a little stronger, if it doesn’t kill me 😀 Confidence is a good thing …