My friend Jenny likes to try to steer me off topic, and today rather than resist, well, I go with the flow. It’s the “yes, and” in improvisational, creative writing and blogging … for today at least 😀
I consciously don’t read or watch news, I find it biased, usually it’s spun and sensationalised so much the truth or fact is hard to extract. So I often get my news third hand from others, like Jenny, at least partially digested. I’ve done zero research on this topic, for sure I know the gaps will get filled in by you commenting. Perhaps some feel that Jenny’s topic isn’t a miscarriage of justice, and the “system” is fair and just.
It seems that a Police officer in the USA has been acquitted of a murder charge of a young black man. It also seems that most people aren’t buying the official explanations, and that they feel it’s simply that age old case of money/power trumping the ordinary “little” people, the majority of us in fact. Literally that power and money allows people to “get away with murder”. Murder being the most heinous of crimes.
Miscarriages of justice aren’t uncommon, or rather they are common where money and power are used to avoid the laws that apply to ordinary citizens. For ordinary citizens this usually makes our blood boil. What a mockery it makes out of our communities, our laws and our morals – the fabric of our societies.
For those with wealth and power, it’s very tempting to avoid such punishment. There are potentially reasons why wealthy and powerful people should be protected, as they are often employers, landlords or have positions of great responsibility. Simply, they do often contribute much to our societies, and may cease to contribute if such punishments were to occur. Where do we draw the line though ?
In the UK, the Police are allowed to and DO break the law in order to enforce it, I’ve seen this first hand. Miscarriages of justice also occur, often, in the UK, it’s not limited to USA or any other country.
So, questions :-
- Are there reasons why wealthy, powerful, famous or influential people should be protected from normal justice ?
- And if so what are they ?
- Why should there be one set of rules for the Police/government/secret service/etc and another set for the rest us ?
- Was the Police officer in USA guilty and should have been “properly punished” OR not ?
- If he was guilty and got away with it, how does that make you feel about the society/country you live in, or the USA if you’re not a US citizen ?
People of all races and colours can face miscarriages of justice – SO, Bear in mind I won’t tolerate racism IN ANY DIRECTION or aspects thereof, such comments will be regarded as irrelevant and deleted without notice.
Over to you …
Cheers
Don Charisma
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Warm regards, Don Charisma
Don Charisma 
I didn’t realize I was steering off topic – when I answered the question on the “opinion” post all this was starting to happen and I’d just learned 3 major bridges in my city had been shut down, and the outrage seemed to tie into opinion in that both were people who felt they weren’t heard, needing to be heard. I think I was seeing that connection, with it looming very big over here. This thing is still going on here in the states, and information is still emerging, though it’s always fun to read reactionaries simultaneously dismissing mainstream news (as I’m wont to do as well) while still reiterating every mainstream news talking point.
Like you though Don, I feel that the police should be able to incapacitate a suspect and take them in for questioning without killing them, which this isn’t the only news story of here in the States, just the one that made all Hell break loose. A friend of mine some time back went through police academy training, they were taught these things, but unfortunately some cops—not all of them—seem to handle things in an all or none manner.
LOL, you have tried before, and it’s OK Jenny … I generally on the front page am not aiming to embarrass my friends, unless that is that I think they can take it and would see the funny side … trolls/bullies I might be, because they do deserve it, but you’re not one of those 😀
Thanks for sharing. My main conclusion is that it’s the gun culture, and in the USA you guys either need to ban the guns or suck it up really. Guns are only made for one purpose. If police carry them, then criminals will too, people will die, and they do.
I was also shocked that US police are allowed/trained to use deadly force against unarmed people.
I think all of the above is why the UK police just don’t carry guns, and we’ve banned guns for general citizens, it’s safer for everyone.
And lastly there’s good and bad people in every walk of life, let’s be thankful for the good cops who do their jobs properly and make our countries relatively safe and relaxed places to live 😀
Happy holidays !
D
Ah, wasn’t aware I did.
Guns and gun control are another big hot-button issue in the States, with a lot of arguing back and forth and a large pro-gun lobby always creating alarm that the want to take away the guns to create a police state. (Though it looks more like they’re removing the legal delineations between our police and our military to do the same thing.)
Though I’ll admit to enjoying target shooting in the past — lining up cans outdoors and shooting at them when I lived in Arizona, you may be on to something. Or it may create the scenario they always warn about where “only the outlaws will have guns”. I really don’t know what the answer is, but I do know that I agree there is NO need to be using lethal force against an unarmed person!
Now you are then 😀
Thanks, and yes I did think about opinion post on gun culture … but then I decided not to …
I don’t watch or read the news either because it’s usually twisted, BUT when a friend of mine shared reports CNN had posted, all of the evidence that the jury recieved as well as the transcripts from their deliberation(I did not read those yet, only the autopsy)it was clear what the officer said happened was the truth because the evidence showed that the suspect was on marijuana as well as other drugs, and he was most likely leaning into the officer’s car when he was shot because of the position of some of the gunshot wounds. And from what I heard the majority of the jury was black. It is the people of this country that chose to ignore the facts and turn it into a race issue when it was not and give fame a notiriaty to a common thug that just got done robbing someone. What just happened in my city yesterday in another perfect example. A 12 yr old boy was in a city park brandishing a gun, threatening and intimidating other children with it. This is an area full of drugs and gangs(I believe it, I’ve lived there)when the police arrived they told him to put his hands up and he instead reached for his waist to draw the gun. An officer shot him, in the stomach-not somewhere life threatening, he later died from his wound. Yesterday the people of the city started a 50 person protest that turned into at least 500. They blocked people from getting out of the city for 3 hrs. For a gangster wanna be. The kid was black. 8 yrs ago in that same neighborhood a white police officer was shot and killed trying to serve a warrent on a rape suspect? Where were the protestors then? Nowhere. They did put up a memorial for him in the exact same park this kid was shot at. That’s irony for you.
The protest was yesterday, not the shooting. And, I forgot to add that even thought it was a pellet gun the child had he took the orange tip off to make it look like a ‘real’ hand gun.
Dumb, very dumb, but sad that a 12 year boy got shot never-the-less …
I think the media will play whatever cards suit ratings and their financial bottom line. I tried to steer the opinions away from the race issue, as I don’t think it serves anyone on either side. In fact more muddies the water than anything else. My point being that it could have been a young man of any race that was shot by the police.
You’ve added some gaps in my knowledge which was helpful 🙂
It’s pretty stupid to point what looks like a real gun at the Police, and that I’d expect a person to get shot for. Handguns are issued to Police for them to protect themselves and innocent citizens, to use deadly force in a situation which warrants it. Or at least that’s how I expect it to be, they shouldn’t be shooting jaywalkers or unfaithful husbands/wives …
As for the guy who was high on drugs, which prompted the original post, it’s more controversial because he was at the end of the day unarmed. I personally don’t believe in the use of deadly force on an unarmed person. Assaulting a police offer doesn’t in any country or place as far as I’m aware legally carry a death sentence.
Police aren’t conscripted to the job, and it’s common knowledge that the job is dangerous and has risks. The same with firemen, and for that matter most who join the armed forces. Whilst it’s deeply saddening, and still a crime that they get injured or killed in the line of duty, they accepted the risks when they signed up. If they didn’t then they should have been a gardener, cook or candlestickmaker, there are a vast array of other trades to go into.
In the UK I think we have a lot less problems with guns, because A) they are illegal for most people to posses, and I think you face a jail term if you’re caught with one and B) ordinary police officers don’t carry them. A possible solution would therefore to have a similar system in the US, but I don’t think that’s a vote winner for any government who implements it. SO, bottom line, with guns readily available in US, people are going to get shot, one can’t have it “both ways”. Guns have very little use for anything apart from killing people, farmers perhaps have a valid reason for possessing them for shooting vermin and animals that might attack their livestock. People manage to defend themselves and their homes in the UK without them.
It is truly sad to me that so many people are willing to overlook forensic evidence. People can lie, people can misinterpret, and people can truly believe in things they did not see as God’s truth. However, forensic evidence is a hard science. It does not care about racial divide or political motivation. It doesn’t care whether it was a cop that was shot, or an 18 year old kid, and it certainly doesn’t care about color. It just states scientifically what events happened, and in what order. Many witness accounts swear that Mike Brown was shot in the back- forensic evidence says that is false. Whether the officer in the case was a jerk in the scenes prior to the shooting- I don’t know, I wasn’t there. But, I have to have faith in the system that my ancestors have fought, sweat and bled for (I’m an American). The facts are there, I don’t understand why people not only want to dispute them, but riot, loot, pillage and destroy their own communities? It is a level of idiocy and is in no way helping ANY cause, much less race relations. Facts are: 1. He forcefully robbed a store before hand- which put out a notice to look for him (by description). Video footage from this encounter is readily available. 2. He was seen attacking the officer in the police car- and forensic evidence substantiates this. 3. Any one that is a law abiding citizen knows that if an officer tells you to do something- you freaking do it. Under no circumstances do you get hostile and resist arrest. Resisting arrest or hostile activity will not help your situation, and only escalate an already tense situation. So why would you do it?
Unfortunately here in the US (and I am sure everywhere) there are people that like to look for flash points so that they can insert themselves into a fiery situation and make it explode- just for the fun of it. Then there are others that use that chaos and drama to further their own agenda- be it political or criminal.
It breaks my heart to see the level of hatred spewing out from people. I would really hate to see this scenario take us back as a country. So many Americans fought long and hard for civil rights, the RIGHT way. People like the late, great Dr.Martin Luther King Jr.
As for the guns commentary- that would be a debate for another time. Culturally there is a divide here on them as well. But we have always been a country of farmers and hunters…as well as “sophisticated urbanites” that don’t want or need them. Life, love and the pursuit of happiness- that is where we are all similar. I love my country and all of it’s quirks and eccentricities make it what it is. We aren’t a nation of thugs, murderers and hillbillies- regardless of what the media outlets want to portray us as. We are just people, wanting the best for our families and ourselves. Just seems that some get off track and off center and do the wrong thing. We as society then have to find a way to reign that in, in a civilized manner. Which right now, it would seem that some communities need that reminder.
Oddly I agree with most of what you said here 😀
Forensic evidence I’m afraid isn’t the pinnacle of fact. It can be lied about, manipulated or lost by those who’re unscrupulous and corrupt. My hair for instance could be placed at a crime scene, and then there’s DNA evidence that I was there. The scary part is that it’s seen by some as such rock solid evidence. The problem boils back to the people and it’s therefore subject to the same problems as any other evidence …
We had riots in the UK few years ago. Whilst I don’t condone the needless destruction of property and crimes that took place, I can see the level of anger, and those needing an outlet. It flared up, then died down and stopped, as with all unrest this is the pattern.
The dead drugged up guy was obviously a criminal. And resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer is pretty dumb, very dumb actually. But as I’ve said I don’t think the punishment fits the crime.
Very well said. Thank you.
“in the stomach-not somewhere life threatening”
Actually, there really isn’t anywhere in the human torso where a bullet can penetrate and not be considered a critical injury; the chest and midsection is essentially a person-sized sausage casing stuffed with vital organs. The stomach in particular is a very bad organ to get shot in, being both incredibly painful and a virtual death sentence without professional medical intervention. Speaking generally, “shooting to wound” with a firearm is a myth, and a horribly irresponsible way to use what is in no uncertain terms a lethal weapon.
Having watched the surveillance video of the Tamir Rice shooting (found here: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/28/3597546/officers-who-shot-12-year-old-holding-toy-gun-refused-to-give-him-first-aid/), the officers looked like they were following what could be considered “best practices” (note: “best” purely in terms of functionality, not morally or ethically) in regards to the situation; they roll directly up on the person (both in hopes of intimidating the person into yielding, and to put the officer in the passenger seat in a good start position if a foot chase ensues), and as soon as Rice went for his gun-shaped object the passenger seat officer took a shot at center-mass and then moved back around into cover as soon as physically possible. Rice drops out of frame behind the squad car, but based on the follow-up actions of the officers (both of them keeping Rice covered until the driver can move in and sweep the ground with his foot, presumably to get the gun-shaped object away from Rice) the passenger seat officer’s bullet did exactly what it was designed to; penetrated the child’s midsection and inflicted a severe and painful enough injury to cause him to drop the airsoft gun and be unwilling/unable to reach out for it. That’s what you’re supposed to do with a gun. It’s not a phaser, there’s no “stun” setting, only “kill”, and “don’t kill until after I flip this switch off”, and some firearms don’t even have that last one.
I had a look at the video too, it’s almost as if the officers knew where the camera was, with the car obscuring the action. The kid seemed to be sitting in the shelter minding his own business, unless I missed something.
And very much agreed, guns aren’t “stun” devices they are designed to kill and supposed to be lethal weapons. I’d welcome anyone who thinks they are to let me shoot them in the stomach, and see if they still thought the same. Provided of course they pre-signed a waiver removing any responsibility on my part. Takers, not many, and I don’t think many would continue to say they are stun devices after having been shot …
The other thing that I was surprised to learn (in doing these posts) is that police officers in the US can use lethal force legally on an unarmed suspect.
The bottom line is that the problem is the guns. An over zealous policeman without a gun is much less likely to kill someone “by accident” than one with one. The USA gun culture is unlikely to change, it’s obvious from American movies that most are proud of their gun culture, so there will be more of this to come later. Those who’re valued least in society are most at risk, because the least objection raised to killing them.
So often what we see and hear is not even what is really happening. Even here in these comments I’ve heard some (not much) mention of the people ransacking their own neighborhood, which is exactly the distortion of the truth that the media was feeding everybody. But by day three or four, or whatever it was, the police had arrested those who were instigating the trouble that not only the police, but the citizens of the neighborhood themselves were trying to put a lid on, and those people weren’t even from the same state. So the image that the media was feeding everybody was false, because the actual troublemakers were not the people of that neighborhood. So how can we deal with something when we can’t even trust what we’re seeing?
That’s a very good point my friend … it’s hard to trust what we see, especially when often it’s not the truth … media spin things for bottom line and for ratings, so I bear this in mind in what I hear, read and see … seeing the emotive methods they use could help to “read between the lines” …
OK…black and white relations in America; the state of American justice; better treatment in many arenas for people who have money; police procedures; differences in police training in different cities; to what extent are blacks owed preferential treatment because of pre-20th century enslavements;, to what extent are white people afraid of black people, both because of a larger percentage of blacks being criminals, and because of their superior strength and coordination; to what extent can we excuse criminality because of systemic unfairness; declaring justice not served because of feelings or sentimentality…..
That’s a short list of influences upon American justice….if you think you can sort through all that and apply a personally defined OR socially defined logic of justice, you may be kidding yourself.
A few other factors at work in American justice: family comments before sentencing in criminal trials; polarized socio-political dialogue; US. war-making in multiple countries; media functioning in the conduct of presentation of evidence….
… 😀
Indeed, judges must have a hell-of-task applying just and fair judgements … for the rest of us, interesting to speculate … and definitely not going to kid myself on that one 😀
The “Lamestream” media always sensationalizes anything that fosters separation among the masses. be it race, religion, gender, wealth, or ethnicity.
Also, most laws and especially fines, are designed to be a “slap on the wrist” to the wealthy.
Well put as regard how the media manipulates, nice to see it so concise 😀
And yes a $1000 fine to an unemployed man is a whole different equation to the same fine to a billionaire !
Unfortunately people still see only what they want to see! Few are truly objective, and there are philosophers who will argue true objectivity does not exist! That being said all we can do is admit our bias, state our opinions, and let others do the same. The truth will win out eventually, if people allow dialog with reason. That is a big If!
Very wise, and yes I’ve long since known that “the truth” is subjective … it’s interesting to see the viewpoints on this issue, sometimes I’m devils advocate, sometimes I have a counter opinion and sometimes I just plain agree … fascinating really 😀
I know how the system in the U.S. is set up against the poor. Late fees and other pit falls are set up to milk every last cent out of the ones who can least afford it. But our system has something to combat this…participation. If you feel your bank is bending you over; you remove your money and put it in a credit union or even in a sock in a drawer. Is the close to 0% interest rate helping you save money or is it allowing the bank to use your money and not pay you back for it? Voting helps as well. All things that the people who are marginalized do not seem to do.
As for the verdict, sometimes it goes one way or the other for me. I have seen cases in which I thought the person was guilty and the jury was nuts but I had to respect the fact that the person had their team defend them and the prosecutor layed out their story and a jury either believed it or did not. The defendant was not tried and sentenced by the judge and the police chief. So something made them not believe that there was no enough evidence to even indict the man.
You see this! You can not go around killing black people! You see what happens now! – a guy yelling in the background on the news.
Sorry sport…Your actions had zero effect on me. Destroying the lives of others in your area has no effect on me. It has an effect on the people who worked hard to build a dream and the people they served and employed.It has an effect on you when you get hungry and have to go a few extra miles to get food. As for me, I am going to work soon in my car after leaving my functioning neighborhood. I may get a coffee in the shop down the street.
Late fees I hate, UK has taken them on with gusto, and I have organisations that I’m in long term commitment can’t get out of that have started applying them, so it’s not always as simple as just going elsewhere. Bottom line – late fees = corporate theft.
I think after speaking to a few commenters I’m erring to the side of guilty, and the policeman needs to be punished. There’s no death sentence in place for resisting arrest or assaulting a policeman. Whilst these are crimes, deadly force wasn’t warranted. Courts, fines and jails are in place for such crimes.
As for the riots, it’s pretty grim that people are destroying homes and businesses, but does for me indicate the strength of feeling involved. Police can’t just go around “executing” people, black, white, male or female doesn’t make any difference. Police volunteer knowing full well the risks of their job, and they are issued handguns not for executions, but deadly force where it’s warranted. It’s only really warranted if they are being fired on, in my opinion. Still if they wish to continue with that way of doing things, then I don’t blame the criminals for carrying firearms and shooting first and asking questions later … and where does this all end, an eye for an eye, and the whole world is blind.
I think that this a difficult situation to find a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer in. But maybe the rules of engagement enforced on the army should apply to the police and they should only be allowed to fire if fired upon.
I’m surprised that the Police are allowed to fire upon before they’ve been fired upon – could be argued “they started it” if they started shooting first … so good point !
My problem is that the officer wasn’t actually charged with any wrong doing. The grand jury was just to see if there would be a trial. I wasn’t surprised by the verdict of no indictment, yet still disappointed
VERY well said, from my understanding so far I do concur 😀 Police need to be held to account. A death sentence for assaulting a Police officer, that’s just not right or fair.
The media actually fed the protests, in spite of what the evidence was. Early hype was that the victim was shot in the back and that his hands were up, both of which were proven false. The 290-lb “kid” used his body as a weapon, as evidenced in a very recent security camera video of his strong arm robbery. And he had a lot of marijuana in his system. If he jumped on a 150-lb cop he might squish him like a bug. People should really teach their children to respect officers of the law, as they do risk their life and health. This whole area of Missouri was a huge welfare project were police were under-represented. Assaulting a police officer is what got the young man killed. So I believe the jury had it right. Also, the violent protests only reinforce that the victim was from a very lawless subculture. You don’t destroy your neighborhood and your neighbors’ homes and businesses even if you think justice wasn’t properly carried out. Nobody did that when justice did not prevail for Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.
Sounds the media’s MO, whatever feeds bottom line and ratings … And yes agreed, people should teach their kids to respect the law. Within that my understanding is that assaulting a police officer doesn’t carry a death sentence is USA, or anywhere else in the world. So I don’t reckon the jury got it right … a handgun is deadly force, and should only be used in a situation that warrants it – I’ve yet to hear a compelling argument for, so far …
As for people “shitting” on their own doorsteps, yes agreed, that doesn’t really give a picture of communities and individuals who’re responsible and upstanding … however it does show the strength of feeling that they feel there’s been a miscarriage of justice – even lawless subcultures have codes of conduct whereby they are generally not destroying each other’s homes and businesses on a day-to-day basis … or at least that’s my understanding, not coming from an underworld, crime or lawless subculture background myself …
Death Sentence. You keep saying that. Think for a moment if if were you. You are an average sized man- 5’8″ and 165 ish pounds and a 6’4″, 290 pound line-backer of a young man were charging you – with deadly intent. That is all that is needed for the officer to use deadly force. If he felt at any time that his life was in danger, then YES, it is perfectly legal and within his rights as an officer of the law to shoot. With only seconds to act, they are trained to shoot to kill an assailant. It is incredibly easy to say from behind a desk what you or I believe is right, and how you or I would have reacted. But, you or I weren’t in that situation.
It is not uncommon in situations where an officer is down that onlookers assist- the assailant. Think about that before you cast judgement on people that do put their lives on the line everyday. Yes, they took the oath to protect and to serve, with the caveat that they can defend themselves if needed. Or else why would they? Criminals don’t respect the law.
LOL, funny enough it’s my blog so yes I keep on saying whatever I want, whenever I want and at the frequency I want … you are at the end of the day a guest here …
A death sentence doesn’t suit an assaulting a police officer. Period. Not anywhere, not ever. That’s an absolute abuse of power. And I’m surprised you would openly support such an action. I’d be incredibly angry if this happened to anyone I know. And I’d want justice for the person killed. A court appearance and an aquittal isn’t justice, it stinks of corruption and power sheltering the guilty from justice.
To be honest I thought this kind of thing only happened in the movies, I didn’t realise American police could ACTUALLY REALLY kill people for “looking scary” … that’s a really frightening thought …
Police officers in the UK get charged with deadly intent by 6’4″ 290 linebackers and don’t feel the need to shoot them for it … well they can’t as they don’t have guns … so what’s wrong with Americans that they can’t enforce their laws without killing people for relatively minor offences ?
I’d support Police on the good that they do, truly I have met some cool Police. They are silently supported by the taxes I pay and have paid anyway, same for any tax payer. But not on this one, they made a mess of this, and now the whole world is watching stories of American police shooting dead unarmed men. Not a pretty picture from the outside. And the fact this guy was black only adds fuel to the fire.
You guys need to ban the guns. I’m starting to see why others are anti the American gun culture – I still can’t believe your police can kill someone in those circumstances. Strange but true !
On this one I will have to politely agree to disagree. We are from different countries and cultures, and I will leave it at that. So far I enjoy your blog, as I just discovered it today. But, I also enjoy the fact that as individuals of free spirit and free choice- we are (luckily) able to express differing opinions. I have friends and family that are both in military and on different police forces nation wide. So it makes sense that I would have a “pro” vision. Like any job, sometimes there are people that excel at their post, and there will be those that suck. Such is the way of the world.
Happy for polite disagreement, sometimes I learn from other’s conflictory viewpoints, as do I’m sure others reading the comments here.
I hope your not disagreeing with my right to moderate and delete comments on this blog. I am legally responsible for what’s published here, you are not. So you do not have free reign to say whatever you want. You may do that on your own blog taking your own responsibility. Others may allow it on their blogs unaware of the potential consequences and responsibility they actually face. But not here and not on my watch. I’ve made that quite clear in the disclaimer on the post itself.
I’m not anti-military or anti-police. However people are corrupt and weak in all walks of life, and I don’t accept that just because someone does a job which is supposed to good that they are in fact a good person or that every single deed they do is correct, just and good. And such people need to be held to account the same as the rest of us.
Without military and police we’d certainly be living on hell on earth, so personally I’m very happy that these men and women do devote their lives to helping us to live safe lives. I get to live in relative freedom and relative safety because of the ones who protect me silently. I do my utmost to respect the police in day-to-day contact, even though I have suffered abuse and corruption from them and almost certainly will in the future. Bottom line I’m not interested in spending time in jail, which is normal for most people.
What I do take exception to is when the power given is exceeded or corrupted. This makes me personally feel less safe and less trust in police or military. And this doesn’t serve them either for people not to trust them.
There’s something I didn’t like in the “We are from different countries and cultures, and I will leave it at that.” but I’ll leave it at that for now.
Like you pointed out , this is “YOUR blog”, so you do what you need to do as material on here is ultimately YOUR responsibility, so makes sense that you would have power over the content. I don’t believe I alluded to me being able to control your content- that would just be silliness on my part, now wouldn’t it? I don’t mind bringing the silly- when it is warranted, but had not intended that here. So, my apologies if that was how it was construed. With all of that being said, the only thing I meant was that with your opinion being different than mine- and your experiences, culture, what have you being different than mine- it is interesting to see the differing view points. That is all, nothing malicious intended. I am not the greatest word smith out there (OBVIOUSLY) so sometimes my words don’t adequately convey my feelings. So, by all means, delete what you need to as you see fit (as is your right on your own space)- or as my Granny used to say “Whatever blows y’er skirt up, Hon”. (There is the silly ;o)
Happy for you to bring the silly 😀
And, don’t worry Hon, I enjoyed discussing with you, because you brought a lot to the table. I do always learn something everytime I post one of these opinion posts.
You’ve kept out of a-hole territory which is generally what I delete/spam queue … YOUR comments are/were relevant. So really, honestly thanks for contributing.
I do often play devils advocate – it’s interesting to put alternate views to people and occasionally others learn from the opposing point of view.
And you and me both on the wordsmith thing, some days more than others … easy to lose meaning in ambiguity, cultural differences and just plain old people being dumb, on either side of a communication …
I’ve had some commenters who seem to feel I should publish whatever they’ve written, so I’m glad you see that I’m doing my best to act responsibly and trying my best to steer people to politely expressing what they think and feel about topics. We discussed free-speech here in the past, and my conclusion is it’s a privilege not a right, that comes with the responsibility to have respect for others in what we’re saying.
I’ve answered nearly 43000 comments here, and seen most behaviours, good and bad – you don’t strike me as someone who’s malicious or “nasty”.
I’ve travelling in the US and in Europe, currently living in Asia. So cultural differences are common, but in general I find human beings to be pretty similar regardless of race or culture … although some differences are harder to comprehend than others !
I learnt a thing or two from discussing with you, so thanks for that once again and thanks for commenting 😀
It was a pleasure. I wish I could say discussions of this nature are “always a pleasure”- but we all know the name of that tune. LOL
One day I want to be able to be that world traveler too, drinking in the cultural diversities of the world (and let’s face eating the diverse cuisine)..For now, I can do here and Mexico. So you enjoy Asia- sounds AMAZING.
Yup, been there done that, got the t shirt …
Hope you get the chance, it’s interesting to see new places and experience new foods … Thai food is great, albeit often obscenely spicy 😀
I had a friend who travelled extensively in Mexico, he loved it. Not had the chance myself, but I’d like to go to South America, Mexico or Brazil for start with … but probably same as you funds don’t allow …
Happy thanksgiving, see you later 😀
Like you, I refuse to listen or read mainstream news. With this advantage of impartiality it is easy to identify instances where public propaganda efforts are underway.
That said, I do feel that there may have been a miscarriage of justice in Ferguson.
It’s certainly seeming that way the more comments I’m reading here … an unarmed man suspected (not convicted) of robbery shot 6 times by a policeman, I’m failing to see the need for deadly force here … as a friend pointed out, what next we start shooting jaywalkers ? … no for me this is corruption and abuse of power, handguns aren’t issued to police for them to carry out executions every-time they feel a little frightened … now if the dead man had been armed and shooting at him, that’s a different story …
I agree with the aforementioned…we should definitely stand up for what’s right against such injustices, however those in power are in the know when it comes to poverty and the lower “middle-class” (in quotation because the middle-class is dying) – we are too busy and exhausted by the effort to survive we don’t have the time or strength to speak up or sadly even Vote. They are all too well aware of this fact and thet use it to their advantage…why gov’t works against us and really, they desire the divide between rich & poor to widen. Sigh…here in Canada we feel this pain too. Big time. Federal election October 2015 will see great change in my estimation (or it is sadly just my hope) from Conservative to Liberal. We need it or we’ll really be effed up. Thank you for this post Don. Have yourself a lovely day. Jules
You’re welcome Jules. And thanks for your comment and opinions 😀
The primaries were held earlier this month- any name that I knew I made sure to vote OUT. We are all in need of some new viewpoints, fresh ideas. Yes, I agree that it is an economical divide even more than a racial one…As long as the “Richie Rich’s” are able to fan the flames of discord between the “lower ranks”, the longer they will continue to hold all of the power. Sad, but true. AND if people would pay half as much attention to politics as they do Face Book, The stupid Kardashians and Football? We would have an entirely different world!
LOL, get off facebook and do something real !
And what really are the Kardashian’s contributing to society? YUCK.
10:4 on that …
AGREED!!
It is important to have judges who have sense of justice and righteousness
>
That’s for sure
The facts of this story are immaterial, what is the important part is the perception. This is not about money, it is about colour. As it is however it appears that the decision to not try the Police Officer is correct. A jury of 12 independent people heard the evidence. Much of the eye witness statements were changed once they did not fit with the facts. The end result of centuries of racism is absolute distrust.
Appreciate the media will spin with emotive directions that best suit their bottom line and ratings.
I asked you to leave the race card aside, as I don’t personally feel it’s relevant. I’ve let your comment stand because you’re neither being racist nor playing a victim card, simply stating an opinion.
SO – For me it’s still corruption and abuse of power, I haven’t yet read/heard anything that convinces me otherwise. A policeman shooting an unarmed man 6 times on a mere “suspicion” just isn’t normal anywhere in the world, black or white, male or female, Chinese, Japanese, African, English, American or any other colour/race, that just shouldn’t have happened. A death sentence doesn’t suit a robbery charge, nor resisting arrest, nor assaulting a police officer. Only way I can see this is justifiable is if the dead man had been armed and shooting at the police. Deadly force then could be necessary.
Judges, police, juries, in fact damn near everyone can be bought or manipulated in some way, so “the jury of 12” doesn’t sit as “conclusive” with me I’m afraid. Wasn’t there an Alfred Hitchcock movie about one man swaying an entire jury, from a guilty to a not guilty as I remember ?
That’s my opinion so far, could change as I read more comments 😀
Cheers
D
I don’t think big powerful guys should be protected from normal justice. I do get, however, that their cases are more controversial because, simply more people know about them and have an opinion (the bane of a fair justice system). Maybe there should be an alternative way for them to get punished, then. Maybe they should pay a huge fine and not be allowed to appear in the media for 6 years or something. (A TERRIBLE punishment for a celebrity, lol).
I think sometimes police have to break rules in order to enforce the law and, unless there’s corruption involved, they should be allowed to chase and beat people up (something normal people aren’t allowed to do). If it has to go further, maybe it has to go further.
The policeman in America wasn’t really guilty, as far as I can see. The controversy has to do with the fact that black people are more of our percentage of prison population than are white people (something, in my opinion, that has more to do with inner-city culture than discrimination), and if it was self-defense or murder on the policeman’s part. A lot of people are mad because the black man was unarmed and the policeman shot him like 6 times trying to subdue him (he was stopped on suspicion of robbery or something). But, again, stereotypes are always there. If a woman (white or black), had gone after the policeman the way this black man did, she probably wouldn’t have gotten shot. Policemen have dangerous jobs and many get killed or beat to death every year. From what I can see, he got a bit freaked out because this guy was coming for him, and he may or may not have overreacted trying to get him to stop. But the media got involved too soon, before the details of what happened were even known to the general public, and people got mad because all they saw was a big bad racist policeman shooting a poor, innocent, unarmed black man.
So that’s the story. 😉
So policing is a dangerous job, just as being a fireman, people know the risks before they join, as far as I know there isn’t conscription to join the police, so it’s a voluntary decision. One can’t have it both ways …
I’m not sure it’s right that police should be beating people up because they suspect they broke the rules. What if their suspicion was incorrect, what if it was you getting beaten up for something you didn’t do ? Most people would be like “ah well, shit happens, they are just doing their job” after being hospitalised, perhaps disabled by over zealous police …
And yes I like the keeping celebrities out of the media, who then would pay them attention, they’ve be ruined !
If a woman black or white had got shot dead then this probably would have been a whole bigger of a deal … so there is some kind of distorted perception of human life going on here with some having more value and others less !
I think the media will sensationalise with whatever emotive methods that best serve ratings and the bottom line. For me this still isn’t a race issue, it’s an abuse of power. Police handguns aren’t issued for the policeman to act as an executioner as and when he sees fit, nor is the money and power of the department and the government to be used to shelter such abusers. Nor for that matter is a justice system supposed to be manipulated to shelter wrong doers. I only really see corruption here, personally, so far. The race issue just muddies the waters and makes it a lot less clear to see what’s really going on.
Also you can’t go around shooting everyone you suspect of a robbery, what next – we start shooting husbands/wives suspected of being unfaithful, jaywalkers and people who talk too loud ?
And also a handgun isn’t as far as I understand it a tool for “subduing” a person – it’s a deadly force weapon designed for killing. A taser or a truncheon might be …
Thanks for the story, awesome to get your opinion on it, and the above just a few things that came to mind, which as I read now are mostly conflictory – devils advocate more than anything else, so please don’t take the wrong way 😀
You make a good point about the media. I think they should take more responsibility for the whole thing. They kind of jumped on it before any facts were were known.
Also good point about risks coming with the job. 👍
I just understand the point of view of the policeman. I dont think this was as much an issue of race as rioters are making out to be. In the dangerous situations police find themselves in, stuff is bound to happen, you know? And even if it was an issue of racial profiling, rioting is not the way to gain equality!
Don’t get me wrong there’s plenty of honest hard-working Police, and I wouldn’t wish for them to get hurt … but it comes with the territory … and it’s easy to understand the fear that would go into being attacked, I just don’t see deadly force was necessary, this wouldn’t have happened in the UK, our Police don’t carry guns.
The media want to get paid and become more popular, they don’t have a history for taking responsibility and I’m fairly sure that’s not going to change anytime soon … so the wisdom is to realise what they are up to, how they do it and then one can read between the lines a little clearer to see what might really be going on …
The rioters are up to a similar game as the media, in that they’ve chosen to play a card which goes some-way to “justifying” what they are doing …
It’s all really interesting to read the motives of each side, and how they are playing their part of the game …
These are what people experienced everyday, injustice everywhere. There isn’t perfect situation anywhere. But people must still stand up for what they believe is right.
That’s all we can do 😀